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Roz Lindsay: [00:00:00] Welcome to Engage Your Healthcare Leadership podcast with Roz Lindsay. This podcast is dedicated to supporting health care leaders globally. No matter what type of health care you work in, we aim to offer practical management and leadership ideas so you can build a motivated and productive team. For more information head to Thanks for joining us.


Roz Lindsay: [00:00:27] Hi, everyone, and welcome to this week’s podcast. This week, I have two special guests here to talk about leading as new general practice owners and their care outside the box philosophy. Joining us today, we have Dr. Jas Saini and Gurleen Saini, directors of Rosedale Medical Practice, located in Sydney, Australia. Let me tell you a little about these two before we say hi. Dr. Jas Saini is director and principal GP of Rosedale Medical Practice. He graduated from Monash University in Melbourne and received his fellowship in general practice from the [Royal] Australian College of General Practice in 2015. He has extensive healthcare, leadership and management experience and has previously advised Western Sydney practices in their efforts to transform into patient centered medical homes. Dr Saini has additional qualifications in pediatrics and mental health, is an Australian Medical Association state councillor and the former clinical director for Western Sydney Primary Health Network. He is conjoint lecturer at Western Sydney University and a GP supervisor for University of Sydney, Western Sydney University and GP Synergy. As you can hear, he is actively involved in training the next generation of GPS. Gurleen Saini is Rosedale’s director and practice manager. She is a certified practising accountant, registered tax agent and Justice of the Peace. She is also a member of the Australian Association of Practice Management Gurleen provides Rosedale Medical Practice with her business skills to allow the practice to grow without compromising high quality medical care. Jas and Gurleen, welcome to engage your healthcare leadership podcast.


Jas Saini: [00:02:13] Thank you very much, Roz. That was a very lovely introduction and it’s a pleasure to be on the podcast today.


Gurleen Saini: [00:02:19] Thank you, Roz.


Roz Lindsay: [00:02:20] Absolute pleasure. It’s wonderful to have you here to get us started I love asking a few random questions to warm up the conversation and to let listeners get to know you a little. So I’m going to start with a hard one. Jas, I’m going to ask you first. Jas, what is your favorite music to Happy Dance to?


Jas Saini: [00:02:39] Roz, as you know, Gurleen and I are father and mother to our triplet daughters. And I have to answer that question saying that my favorite song in the world to have an answer to is Baby Shark. And the reason, my girls absolutely love it. And I am very, very free to be myself with that song


Roz Lindsay: [00:03:01] Gurleen, what makes you laugh out loud?


Gurleen Saini: [00:03:04] I think all the answers are going to be surrounded by our girls. What makes me laugh out loud is seeing our girls pick up equipment, pick up phones and start saying hello. They’re starting to talk. They’re pretending to be adults. And I think that just makes me laugh.


Roz Lindsay: [00:03:22] How beautiful. Now, I can hardly imagine having three little girls learning to talk at the one time that it’s going to be a really busy and noisy household. Jas, are you prepared for that?


Jas Saini: [00:03:34] Look, I’m surrounded by women at home and at work, which is actually quite nice and refreshing. So I’m absolutely ready.


Roz Lindsay: [00:03:41] That’s excellent. All right. So we’re going to ramp up the questions a little bit from each of you separately. I’d love to hear who is a leader who inspires you.


Jas Saini: [00:03:51] So. Roz, look, I’d probably have to say there’s two that come to mind. Walter Kmet and Michael Crampton. But I’m going to touch on Michael as you asked about one. So Michael was my very first supervisor when I started training as a GP registrar. I had been working in a number of fields in medicine prior to that. And so my very first stint with Michael was bound to be quite foundational to my journey. Michael was the clinical director of the regional training provider at the time. And like any young registrar, I thought the world of him. He was highly respected and it was really quite a pleasure to be within his shadow.


Jas Saini: [00:04:38] So I saw a man who was very, very, very well loved by his patients, his team, his family, his community, and who was respected as a leader, a confidant, someone who people could very comfortably talk to, and someone who really had a lot of influence in people’s lives. And so for the first time, I absolutely fell in love with his profession. I saw it as his profession for quite a while. And I still do. And I think I realized the absolute potential that general practice had of touching people’s lives, of the relationships that he built and his team built with their patients and their families. And I compared that experience to the experience of some of my colleagues. And I knew I was very privileged to be working with this man. And so he really was the number one influence for quite a while. And someone who I still try to mimic in many respects and someone that I still would like to learn a lot from.


Roz Lindsay: [00:05:42] What a wonderful description. Jas, what are the things that you really love to mimic in terms of his leadership?


Jas Saini: [00:05:50] I think Michael is a very humble man. He is very loving and caring. He took me under his wing and believed in me and he was wasn’t shy of telling me how much he believed in me. And so for me to be believed in like that. To have someone say Jas, I think you’re the future of our profession. And I think you’re going to do great things. That was extraordinary. That’s what I try to mimic. Now we’ve had a medical student working at Rosedale Medical Practice for the last few weeks, and I’ve been no stranger in telling her that what I would like to achieve as a mentor and role model is very similar to what Michael gave to me.


Roz Lindsay: [00:06:33] That’s fantastic. Jas, thank you very much and how wonderful for that student that you’re now passing this on as well.


Jas Saini: [00:06:39] Thank you.


Roz Lindsay: [00:06:40] Gurleen – How about a leader who inspires you?


Gurleen Saini: [00:06:43] A leader that inspires me would be my very recent boss at a small accounting firm. And she’s been a very inspiring leader for me ever since I started working for her a few years ago. She, like myself now, is an owner of a small business leading a team. And there’s a lot that I’ve learnt from her that I’d be applying in our workplace. Her patience, her leadership style, her passion, her care. All these qualities that I’ve seen of hers, I’ve been very inspired. And I really look up to her


Roz Lindsay: [00:07:27] And how wonderful that she’s running a small business and that you can now carry that over into running your own business, your own practice together as well. I’m really intrigued about you both having become new owners of a general practice and there’s so much to learn. It’s probably a hard thing to summarize, but could you tell us a little bit about your journey in becoming practice owners for the first time and particularly the leadership that you’ve had to bring to that?


Jas Saini: [00:07:58] Sure Roz, I was quite fortunate early on in a number of my practices to be offered an opportunity to enlist as a partner in those practices, and so I think it was really quite something to be thought of in a way that I would be seen as an equal to the partners in practices that were quite high quality and were very passionate about delivering high quality care to their patients. I think when I transitioned across to working as a clinical director at WentWest, One of the things that I was able to do was travel to the United States on two occasions. And the US is very interesting in the way that medicine is delivered. Often we Australians look to the US and think there are certainly examples where the US doesn’t do as well as we would like, but where they do well, they do extraordinarily well. And so we had the great fortune to connect with numerous people that were considered leaders in the United States. And they were they come to mind include Dr Nwando Olayiwola as well as Dr Kirsten Meisinger, who really showed me a lot of this model called the Patient-Centered Medical Home. The challenge was that whilst I learned all of these things about what good quality primary care should look like, I became increasingly frustrated within my own practice, thinking that I wasn’t quite able to do the things that the Americans were doing. And that was very challenging for me.


Jas Saini: [00:09:29] And I think there’s a concept in leadership called the summit where you’ve experienced growth in your career trajectory for some time and you plateau and you start seeing a downward decline. And I think that’s the point that I was at. I really enjoyed being part of my previous practices. And I thought while they did a tremendous job in caring for people, that there was desperate need for improvement of systems and the model of care that was being delivered.


Jas Saini: [00:09:59] So I read one of Brené Brown’s books recently. She is one of my favorite authors, and she opens with a quote by Theodore Roosevelt. And the quote is a description of the man in the arena, this person that goes out and does things and their critics will critique, but the man in the arena goes out, goes against the grain, and despite challenges and despite facing numerous odds, still perseveres and does something that is far beyond anyone ever had ever imagined. And I thought, well, look, OK, I really connect with this and I need to be that man in the arena. I need to be doing something that actually challenges the status quo and be part of the change that I would like to see in the way primary care is to live.


Jas Saini: [00:10:54] So Gurleen and I started our search for our practice and spent probably about five years actively looking for a place to call our own, and we had a lot of things that we had imagined would be part of that practice. But it was really when we met previous owners of this practice that we thought, well, hey, these are people that really, really, really care about the quality of medicine that they’re delivering to their community and people that have built an absolutely amazing practice who now would like to pass the baton to a younger generation of owners and who are comfortable with the model of care that Gurleen and I would like to deliver.


Jas Saini: [00:11:38] So that’s that’s where we are at the moment. That’s a lot of where care outside the box is actually derived from just going out there and doing something completely different to what has been done before.


Roz Lindsay: [00:11:49] What an amazing story. It was probably worth the wait by the sounds of it. All the hard work over five years to find the right practice. So the care outside the box. Could you share a little bit about the origin of that and what you’re aiming to achieve?


Jas Saini: [00:12:06] So the origin is my lovely wife.


Roz Lindsay: [00:12:10] Maybe she should explain it.


Jas Saini: [00:12:12] Oh, I’ll let her explain. Absolutely.


Gurleen Saini: [00:12:15] I still remember we were driving and Jas asked the question, well, why, you know, the why of our practice? What are we trying to achieve and why have we gone into this? So what are we there for and what are we trying to deliver? And the first and so that came in my mind was we need something outside the box, like a square outside the box. We need care outside the box. And he said, that’s brilliant. That can be our slogan.


Roz Lindsay: [00:12:47] I love that. Do you know that people pay millions of dollars for marketing gurus to get together in a room and brainstorm such a great slogan? So you’ve done very well in a car trip to come up with it. What I really do love about that story, though, is that it has genuinely come from the heart. It’s come from the two of you sitting down and understanding the purpose of your practice, the why you’re going to exist. And I think in terms of leadership, that’s something I certainly talk to teens about, the importance of purpose and understanding that and taking time to think it through so that it will guide all of your future activities and endeavors. Can you tell me a little bit about what it means, what that philosophy means? You’ve started to allude to it, but could you expand a little on what that means to, I guess, to your team, your patients in your practice?


Gurleen Saini: [00:13:38] To me, that means the patient care starts from the front, starts from reception. The care that they would receive starts there. And it doesn’t end there.


Jas Saini: [00:13:50] So Roz, thanks for that question. I think it’s a great question.


Jas Saini: [00:13:53] So care outside the box is really about understanding, acknowledging and respecting the patient journey. So if you come and visit our practice as a patient, we want you to immediately feel at home and at Rosedale Medical Practice we would say that we are your medical home. So what that means is that as soon as you enter the doors of our practice. You experience warmth, compassion and love, you’re greeted by receptionistthat really care about you. And not only that, they absolutely love the work that they do. We talk about this thing called Joy in Work. If our people are not empowered to do what they enjoy and to break the rules and step outside of the status quo and care for you in a way that’s meaningful for them, then we’re not doing our job right. So care outside the box at the front end means that we give our people an environment in which they can thrive and flourish, in which they can care for you in a way that warms your heart as soon as you enter.


Roz Lindsay: [00:15:07] If I wasn’t on the other side of the country, you could sign me up as the patch.


Jas Saini: [00:15:10] Thank you.


Roz Lindsay: [00:15:11] You know, I work in healthcare for 25 years, but I am also a patient and I have been into practices where you open that door and you don’t feel that warmth and you don’t feel that love. And it can be very disconcerting, particularly if you are unwell or you’re worried about something.


Jas Saini: [00:15:26] We really thought about this concept of what outside the box really means. And one of the things that we thought of, well, if we’re really going outside the box, it also means that we’re stepping outside the four walls of our practice. So as a patient, it’s not enough for you to experience good care when your within the four walls of our practice. I think you should also expect that that care continues in your day to day life in some way or another. And so we talk about access and we talk about the continuity of care, but we also talk about being with you on your journey throughout the health care continuum. So whether you’re in our practice or whether you’re in a hospital setting. And for some of our patients, even if you’re overseas, there’s a way that you can access us. And we have a number of patients that actually email us while they’re overseas and say, hey, we’re a bit stuck here. And, you know us much better than anyone here does. And this is what’s going on for us. What can we do? Many in health care would say, well, hey, that’s crazy. You’re not being paid for that stuff. And that’s a lot of your time you’re investing in your people. But yeah, that’s what we’re doing and that’s why we’re doing what we do, because we care about you and we care about the fact that you are our patients. And if you’re in another country, why should we shy away from caring for you. I think we’re going to care for you regardless.


Roz Lindsay: [00:16:58] I imagine there might be people listening who say, oh, my goodness, what are you doing? How are you billing for that? You’re not. It’s just that continuity of care and care isn’t just about sitting across from your doctor talking about a particular health issue. It’s about the fullness of care and the fullness of the person that you’re looking after.


Jas Saini: [00:17:18] So, Roz, if you consider this from a business perspective, because, look, I mean, I think there’s value in talking about how a business operates and how a business is sustainable using an approach like that. Even if you consider business literature, you’re talking about the lifetime value of a client. Right. So if you can do things that mean that your patients value the relationship they have with you, there’s no reason for them to search for care anywhere else. And so even from a business perspective, it makes absolute sense to follow an approach like this, because one, you’re enjoying the work that you do because you’re able to care in a way that’s different from anyone else and you feel this extraordinary relationship with your patient base and their families and their community.


Roz Lindsay: [00:18:07] I think it’s a really smart way to think about it. It’s genuine in its care, but it’s also being able to have business continuity. So you continue to care. So have you had any challenges encouraging your staff to have this concept of care outside the box?


Jas Saini: [00:18:24] Well, I think we’re really early on into the journey. We’ve only been at this practice now for four and a half months. The advantage for us is that the concept of providing exceptional patient centered care is not new for any of our team. We’ve had our longest serving receptionist with us for over 20 years now. And if you consider that there’s something that has encouraged her to stick around for that period of time. People have choices that they can make. Our patients can choose where and when they receive their care. The world is very different these days. You know, we talk about consumers. We talk about choice. And I think people are completely within their rights to choose where they received care and also where they work. So already that’s saying something. The fact that someone’s been with us for that period of time is really saying something about the culture of this place that the previous owners have distilled in some way or form. And so it was quite easy for us to come in and start to understand the journey that these people have taken. So the first four and a half months have really been about trying to understand why people are doing what they’re doing and why people love working here so much. And so whilst we’ve made a number of changes already, I think what we haven’t changed is the foundation of what makes this place up, which is the real relationship-based culture within the practice.


[00:19:56] Which is probably really important in terms of change management. Would you agree with her?


Jas Saini: [00:20:01] I’d say so, Roz. One of the things that we had to do, Gurleen and I both, is learn quite quickly about the way practices are built and managed. And I think Gurleen with her CPA background and me having worked in a government organization that has taught me leadership, it’s been good to know the concepts of change management, but this is quite fresh for us actually implementing it and understanding how change is brought about.


Roz Lindsay: [00:20:33] That was all very new in terms of change management being new. What’s your biggest thing that you’ve learnt starting to get involved in change management?


Gurleen Saini: [00:20:45] I think what we’ve learnt is you’ve got to take the staff and the team with you. You’ve got to explain the logic. You’ve got to explain the reasoning behind why a change is happening. The discussion, the one on one getting to know the staff well, all of these things, they help. It’s important to chat and be a leader rather than a manager when it comes to these things. That’s what I think we’ve been able to achieve so far.


Roz Lindsay: [00:21:15] I think you’re talking a lot there about communicating, helping people to see the need for change. What’s changing? What’s not changing? I think in terms of that, that’s great leadership. When you talk about leadership, I imagine that you have a vision for where you’re heading in the future, be that one year, five years, 10 years. Have you been able to solidify that in such a short period of time to explain to our listeners what your vision for success is in care outside the box?


[00:21:43] So, again, it’s a really good question, Roz, and it’ssomething that we’ve thought about quite a lot. One of the biggest advantages, but also one of the biggest challenges is working as a husband and wife ownership or leadership team.


Jas Saini: [00:21:58] And the advantage is that our why is quite similar. Our personal why really is that we want to be able to create a practice that as our daughters grow up, we can say with full confidence that a practice like ours would be the sort of practice that our daughters would want to go to, and that when they visit a practice like ours, they are greeted with love, compassion, they receive the warmth at the front desk. They talk to the doctors, the doctors are listening and caring. They’ve got a nurse that really guides and supports them as a life coach. And they’ve got other members within the practice that also are with them on that journey so that they can achieve the outcomes with their health and with their life that they would like to achieve. So I think that really grounds us in purpose and it helps us to understand each other. That’s the first step in our leadership journey.


Jas Saini: [00:22:58] I think now that we’ve got that or I think that’s still developing, I think, you know, like any relationship, this is a new part of our relationship. So I think we are still developing in that regard. In terms of a future direction, what we would like to ideally be able to achieve is, this practice, but if we do end up supporting others with building practices or building more practices ourselves, we would like to be able to say that wherever people go to a practice that we’re associated with, that they receive exceptional care. And they can feel confident about not only their health, but also about their general life and their general well-being and where their goals are listened to, understood and we act as partners in their efforts to achieve their goals. So one of the questions we really ask often at this practice is what matters to you?


Jas Saini: [00:24:00] Because, yeah, it’s all well and good to have your diabetes under control or good mental health or good physical health and a good lifestyle program. They’re all very important things. But why do you do it? Well, for us, we look after our health because we would like to see our daughter’s happy and healthy and growing and doing all the things that are important to them in their lives. And others have their own goals. And I think that’s the first thing we need to understand.


Jas Saini: [00:24:30] So in five years time, we would like to say we have built a practice that has built tremendous relationships with patients and understands patients not only from a health perspective, but also from the perspective of what matters to them.


Roz Lindsay: [00:24:46] That’s fantastic. I think it’s a really lovely vision that you’re able to demonstrate and talk through, and that’s lovely that you’re grounded in each other as well as your daughters. And I’m sure that that comes across to your patients as well. So what concerns you about the future of health care outside of your practice?


Jas Saini: [00:25:04] One of the challenges that we see when we interact with our patients is they see the healthcare system as quite fragmented and disjointed. Whilst we try to do our absolute best when we’ve got our patients in front of us and we listen to them and we care for them and we help them through their health goals our concern is that if that’s all we’re doing and we don’t take ownership and accountability of the rest of their health care journey, that something somewhere will be missed.


Jas Saini: [00:25:39] So one of the things that we learned from the US is this idea of 28 day readmission rates. There is a place in Texas where they looked at the number of readmissions that occurred after discharge because of errors with medications. And at the beginning of the journey, the number of patients or the percentage of patients that were being readmitted because of errors with medications, whether they had not been charted in a particular way or whether there was an interaction with one ofthe other medications was a phenomenal 20 percent. When they set about collecting data and doing meaningful things to address the issue they were able to drop that number down to 2 percent. [Wow]. And the way they did that was they respected and understood the entire patient journey from primary care to tertiary care and everything in between. And we worry, or I worry, that we’re not doing enough of that in Australia. And that there is a lot more that we could be doing.


Jas Saini: [00:26:49] So I suppose we go back to the ideas of leadership. And one of the principles of leadership is that we should be accountable for our actions.  But we should also be accountable for the outcomes of our patients. I think that’s very important. In order to do that what I would like to say is that it doesn’t matter if when a mistake occurs, it was due to another provider or the hospital system and not my practice or not our practice. What matters is that something bad happened to one of my patients and so I’m the first to put my hands up and say when the error has occurred it’s my fault. There’s something that I’ve missed and there’s something that we’re not doing right at our practice level to build a strong, effective medical neighborhood around our patients. So our greatest challenge, as practice owners, is not only doing things well where we are, but also being a responsible citizen of the health care system in our country and doing things that start to change the way our patients are cared for across the entire continuum of health care.


Roz Lindsay: [00:28:03] It’s a really interesting approach because from my experience with health care, there is a blame culture in many areas where it was someone else or it was a policy or a politician or the hospital, it was the GP, it was another GP, it was the nurse, it was the receptionist. I work a lot with health care teams and I hear this blame mentality a lot. So it’s very refreshing for me. But it does take courage. It does take leadership. Was it something that you had to put a lot of thought into or is this just your general mindset about life?


Jas Saini: [00:28:36] I think it’s a bit of both Roz. I think over a period of time, and having seen my version of what life entails and with my own lived experience and having faced my own challenges, it’s what I would have liked. And it’s also what I hear from other people in conversation. And one of the most valuable things for me is being able to talk to people one on one within my consult room and listen to their stories. Inevitably, there is exactly what you say is blame culture and the victim then becomes the patient. And really, it doesn’t matter whose fault it is. What matters is that our patients are not given the care that they deserve


Roz Lindsay: [00:29:23] It’s a really wonderful philosophy. Have you had any challenges or have you needed to do anything specific to bring your staff along that journey, too? Because they’re part of this, too, because it will be all very well for you to take responsibility. But I guess it’s a team effort here


Jas Saini: [00:29:38] I think I’ve been very consistent with the messaging of “culture begins with me” in everything that I’ve done, whether it’s in this practice or whether it’s in my wider journey in health care. I believe that’s what people have gotten to know about me and who I am. I think that’s part of my branding as a person. I think I can say that it’s also something that I’ve seen a lot of in Gurleen as well. She shares a very similar philosophy. Consistency is important. If people are consistently saying you adopt a certain value system, then it doesn’t take long for them to for so few will come true and brave enough to adopt a similar system.


Jas Saini: [00:30:22] So part of that in this practice is being quite receptive of when we stumble, when we fall, which we inevitably will. We’ll make mistakes. And I think that’s very important for us to be able to create a culture where we’re learning from those mistakes. I’ve worked in environments where it’s been quite the opposite, where mistakes have been hidden and swept under the carpet, and that creates a culture of fear.


Jas Saini: [00:30:50] People are afraid of speaking out. People are afraid of saying, hey, listen, I think I stuff something up here. We never want to make a mistake that’s going to harm any of us or harm any of our patients. And that’s very important. But if we do fall and stumble somewhere, we want to know about it immediately so we can rectify the issue without any delays and we can make sure that everyone is safe. When I say safe, I mean physically safe. I mean emotionally safe and operating in an environment that values psychological safety, which is very, very important. So it’s really about being very honest, very upfront and being very receptive. I think we‘re early on in the journey and creating a culture of trust has been the most important thing for us so far. What helps with that is having regular meetings with our staff and outside of those meetings and those meetings are important, but they’re a very minor part of what communication is about. Communication is about every single day showing up in a way that you’re approachable and taking the time out a few times a day just to sit down next to your team, wherever they are, whether they’re at the front desk or whether they’re in another consult room or whether it’s the nurse’s office sitting down with them and saying, hey, how are things going? What are we doing well? What do you think we should be doing differently? And is there anything that we can be doing to support you better? So I think if we do that consistently enough. And there is a fair bit of time invested in that, and people are often afraid of spending that amount of time, but a little bit of time invested wisely will actually save an enormous amount of time over the long run.


Roz Lindsay: [00:32:40] It’s a really intriguing thing this whole time because everyone in general practice is busy and everyone’s racing around and there might be some people listening to this going. I don’t have time to sit down with my staff and have time to have meetings. Yet we do spend that time. In time it will save time because your staff become empowered through that process. And you mentioned that earlier on in our discussion that empowering staff was really a big piece of care outside the box. Apart from what you’ve already mentioned, is there anything else that you’re doing to empower your staff?


Gurleen Saini: [00:33:13] Recently, we had a shared training session with the doctors, the nurses, the reception staff, Jas and myself all in one room, which was amazing. I don’t think the staff have ever really experienced that sort of environment where the front team and the doctors and the professionals are all sitting together as at one level. So I think that was great. We had Katrina go through our tips and shortcuts of our medical software. All of the things that staff didn’t know about everybody that we spoke to was amazed and they really appreciated that. We took out that time and got everybody together to go through with everybody. I think that was a really good experience for team building.


Roz Lindsay: [00:33:59] Having everyone together, I think is a big gold star because oftentimes what will happen in general practice? It might be one group does the training and the rest of the team are not involved. So you’re strengthening your bonds and building your trust as a team, coming together and doing that. And people feel empowered because I start to have the knowledge and the experience to be able to work with the software. And they know that each other also has that knowledge and experience. So there’s a trust and support there as well. It sounds like you guys are doing an amazing job building a team, which was already a great team. But you’re building on what their strengths were. You’re enhancing that. And you’re also very focused on the future of your practice. Has your leadership style or philosophy been impacted in any way by now being practice finance?


Jas Saini: [00:34:50] Roz I think I’m the sort of person that always looks to the people around me for inspiration. And as I’ve started this practice journey, there have been two people that I’ve admired for a long time that I’ve constantly reflected on. And in terms of their method of building their practice, they’ve both managed to build extraordinary practices and have taught me so much about what a good general practice should look like.


Jas Saini: [00:35:18] I think in the process of learning about our team and learning about each other, Gurleen and I, what we’ve gained from being on this journey is the idea that people are fundamental to change, to success, to growth and to any vision of getting from good to great. And if we can look after our people, well, they’ll look after each other.


Jas Saini: [00:35:49] So one of the key messages that we’ve wanted to deliver to our team, but also that we constantly remind ourselves about, is that we’re a practice where people care for people. If we broke down every single thing into just one little catchphrase, I think it’d be the reason why people show up here. The reason why our staff come in every single morning excited for another day. And the reason why our patients have been patients of our practice for almost four decades in some instances is because our people have cared for them and they’ve cared for our people.


Jas Saini: [00:36:29] It’s incredible. The love and compassion that we’ve been shown by our patients and their families will often get gifts and just hugs or words that are very kind and very generous. And we’ll have days where things will be quite tough. But being reminded by the gratitude of the people that we’re here to serve, that what we do matters to them and that it’s making a difference in their lives is fuel to keep going and keep doing what we‘re doing.


Jas Saini: [00:37:03] So the leadership style, I don’t think the overall style has changed too much. I think what we have learned, though, is that we’ve incorporated nice and early on a sense of gratitude for everything that we have and for or that exist for us and or that we would like to build for our team and for our patients. We have learned a sense of servitude. I think we’ve adopted a servant leadership style. And part of that has been saying, well, actually, we do want to contribute to the future of our profession. And so we do want to have medical students and registrars within our practice and we want them to be able to learn firstly from our patients and secondly from us. They learn so much more from speaking to their patients than they do from us. But I’d like to think we also make a contribution there. And I think coming into this with authenticity, just being ourselves, being who we are and over a period of time and now four and a half months into the journey, we’ve just showed up and been ourselves. And that’s been very, very important.


Roz Lindsay: [00:38:08] I think that is a beautiful spot for me to ask you what is probably my final question to whether someone is a future practice manager, a future nurse, leader, GP leader, what would be one piece of advice that you would give to the future health care leaders out there globally?


Jas Saini: [00:38:28] I think this is a question for both of us. I’ll give you my version. I think we need to spend a lot of time in reflection. And I think what that means is that we need to be sure of why we do what we do. And Jack Cochrane, who is my mentors mentor, he reminds me of this beautiful phrase that he has called the 21 year old idealist. And what he says is that when any of us enter any profession, we have a set of ideals that we begin our journey with. When we’re young, we’re naive or idealistic. He says we should never lose that idealism. We should always go back in time and think, is what I am doing today aligned with what I wanted to do when I was a young idealist? And if it is. Keep going. If it’s not, maybe it’s time to change duration. Maybe it’s time to rethink. But never forget what you stand for, never forget your ideals.


Roz Lindsay: [00:39:35] Thanks, Jas. That’s very thoughtprovoking. Something to think about. Now, Gurleen if you were to look at someone coming in to be a new practice manager what’s one piece of advice based on what you’ve learned so far in your journey as a practice manager that you will give to them?


Gurleen Saini: [00:39:54] That’s a very good question. To have the passion. If you’re not enjoying it, you’re not going to be any good at it.


Roz Lindsay: [00:40:00] I think that that is a fabulous piece of advice to give to future leaders. And I really appreciate that. Well, Jas and Gurleen, it’s been delightful talking with you today. I think that you have a great vision for the future, for your practice. Four and a half months in, you’ve had enormous impact by the sounds of it. You’re building a wonderful team. And I wish you every success for the future. I may have to come back in a year’s time and reconnect and see how you’re going. And I’d be curious as to your leadership journey from now until then, but you’ve certainly hit the ground running. I’d like to thank you for giving of your time today. And I really appreciate the insights that you’ve shared with my audience.


Jas Saini: [00:40:41] Thank you very much. It’s been a lot of fun. And thank you for having us on your podcast.


Gurleen Saini: [00:40:46] Thank you. It’s a pleasure. This was so fun.


Roz Lindsay: [00:40:49] I’m so glad that you had fun. I did as well. And to everyone else in the audience. Thanks for listening.


Roz Lindsay: [00:40:56] Thanks for listening to the Engage Your Healthcare Leadership podcast. For more information, head to Look forward to you joining us next time.